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Post by Admin on Feb 6, 2021 15:34:38 GMT
Eternal Baseball includes all thirty current Major League franchises, as well as the returning Montreal Expos and the new Birmingham Knights (featuring the greatest players from the Negro Leagues). Having 32 teams gives us the opportunity for a little realignment, into eight four-team divisions. Today we introduce the newly defined American League North, featuring the Chicago White Sox, Cleveland Indians, Detroit Tigers, and Milwaukee Brewers. Who's your favorite to win this division in the inaugural season of Eternal Baseball?  Like and subscribe on YouTube at www.youtube.com/channel/UCWGphMCjA37mggIgDhX5ghAFollow us on Facebook at www.facebook.com/eternalbaseballFollow us on Instagram at www.instagram.com/eternalbaseball/Follow us on Twitter at www.twitter.com/BaseballEternal |
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Post by Terry Dale on Feb 6, 2021 16:16:24 GMT
I wouldn't have chosen Mickey Tettleton for the catcher spot
Mickey Cochrane
Bill Freehan
Lance Parrish
Ivan Rodriguez
Would have been chosen ahead of Fruit Loops, IMO
Other oversights:
Leaving Jack Morris off the active roster
Nick Castellanos in left field, when he never played there..... Steve Kemp, or Willie Horton, is a much more sound choice
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Post by Admin on Feb 6, 2021 16:55:20 GMT
I appreciate your insight here Terry! At catcher, Pudge isn't an option because he's on the Texas Rangers roster and players can only belong to one team. The sim bases players' stats on the average of their three best consecutive seasons, and that's where shorter standout careers (like Tettleton)end up being ranked better statistically than guys with long, iconic careers(like Freehan and Parrish). According to the sim - the OPS ranking for Detroit catchers actually has Rudy York as the leader at .981 but his defensive rating is pretty dismal. Tettleton wins the starting job with an .863 OPS, Johnny Bassler is next with .799 but rated as a six (out of 10) defensively, Lance Parrish is slightly lower at .790 but ranked as a seven defensively, and Bill Freehan comes in fourth at .735 (but with an outstanding 9 rating defensively). Morris is another victim of an outstanding long career without a noticeable peak. He's on Detroit's inactive roster, but his 3.55 ERA leaves him behind Virgil Trucks, Frank Lary, Mickey Lolich, Tommy Bridges, and Todd Jones in the "minors." Castellanos played nine games in left field as a rookie in 2013, and eleven for the Cubs in 2019, plus he gives you some roster flexibility if you are brave enough to put him at third base. I didn't know much about Steve Kemp, but he did have a nice three-year run from 1978-1980. It looks like you could argue Bobby Veach (OPS .903) or Curtis Granderson (.851 with better defense) over Castellanos (OPS .862), but Willie Horton's .804 and Steve Kemp's .852 aren't going to dislodge him.
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Post by Terry Dale on Feb 6, 2021 17:09:08 GMT
I appreciate your insight on how teams are built. It makes sense how it is constructed.
On a side off team note. I am surprised that Manny is on the Sox, and not the Indians roster....
Hopefully, other people will have some opinions on the Tigers roster...
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Post by Admin on Feb 6, 2021 17:28:21 GMT
Manny Ramirez was one of the tougher calls to make in player allocation - other tough ones included Nolan Ryan, Carlton Fisk, Randy Johnson, Mike Piazza, Carlos Beltran, and Dave Winfield.
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Post by Jeff G on Feb 14, 2021 13:03:37 GMT
One of the great things about baseball is the unquantifiable. Like team chemistry or the "gut" feeling a manager has about a particular player; last be not least is a players heart. I could never have left Jack Morris off my starting roster. He won more games than any other pitcher in the 1980's. Then look at his ACLS and World Series record. Does his overall stats go into consideration or only his Detroit statistics?
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Post by Admin on Feb 15, 2021 14:00:08 GMT
Jeff, a player's overall career can be a factor if it's a close decision between two players or between an active/inactive roster spot. For the actual entered statistics it's their best three consecutive seasons averages from when they were playing on the team they are representing. Mark McGwire would have better stats as a St, Louis Cardinal, but he's an Athletic in Eternal Baseball, so his stats reflect his best three-season run in Oakland.
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kevin
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Post by kevin on Feb 17, 2021 16:24:29 GMT
I can agree that there must be a uniform method for determining which players are selected for each team for both 'Active' and 'Inactive' status ..and I can also agree with most of the players you have selected.
However, I do not agree with every single choice you have made in determining the Detroit Tigers 'Active' and 'Inactive' rosters ..and I am providing two suggestions that make sense to me.
First, I would consider adding some significant sort of additional Bonus Ranking (points?) for any Hall of Famer regarding whether they are on 'Active' or 'Inactive' roster(s). For example, some sort of bonus ranking that might promote pitcher Jack Morris from 'Inactive' to 'Active' roster.
Second, I also might consider giving an even greater significant bonus ranking to any player(s) that had a prime role(s) in helping their respective team(s) to the World Series and/or actually winning the World Championship. This additional bonus might help promote either Lance Parrish and/or Kirk Gibson to the 'Active' roster, while perhaps demoting Mickey Tettleton and/or Nick Castellanos to the 'Inactive' roster
In other words, seems to me that overall .. players like Jack Morris, Lance Parrish, and/or Kirk Gibson may actually have been far more valuable to their respective team(s) in achieving greater synergy and overall success than players who basically had a slightly better 3-year running stat-line during their time with the team .. perhaps far more valuable than Ed Killian, Mickey Tettleton, and/or Nick Castellanos.
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Post by Admin on Feb 17, 2021 17:31:46 GMT
Kevin, I like your concept here and I agree that there's something to a championship pedigree that's hard to quantify statistically. We didn't choose players based exclusively on their peak OPS or ERA - there's lots of other factors, including defensive rating, lefty/righty splits, positional flexibility, and in a close situation - meaning to to the fanbase and the baseball community.
Nick Castellanos is a great example. I don't think any Tigers fan would pick Castellanos for the main roster over Kirk Gibson of Curtis Granderson. Gibson is a beloved (local) legend and World Series hero and Granderson offers outstanding defense anywhere in the outfield.
But if you dig a little deeper - Detroit is STACKED in the outfield, with Hall of Famers Harry Heilmann, Ty Cobb, Al Kaline, and Sam Crawford. Where Castellanos has incredible value is against LHP. His peak OPS vs. lefties is 1.138 - better than everyone on the roster except Harry Heilmann.So despite his questionable glove, Castellanos brings specific value to the roster and that's how he displaces Gibson & Granderson.
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Post by missinmize on Jul 28, 2022 15:57:38 GMT
Just for your consideration, I used WAR instead of OPS in my calculations based on the 3 peak years. When doing so, my 6 starting pitchers are: Newhouser, Lolich, Verlander, Trout, Bobo Newsom, & Donovan. The second highest WAR group to be categorized as relievers are: Max Scherzer, McLain, George Uhle, Bunning, Morris & Hiller. Pitchers on the farm are: Lary, Bridges, Killian, Mullin, Mark Fidrych, & Al Benton.
The only WAR-over-OPS surprises among the position players include Freehan over Tettleton at catcher, not really a surprise there, but Dick McAuliffe supplanting Whitaker at second. I'd also put Chet Lemon as back-up centerfielder, moving Crawford to back-up rightfielder. And, of course, the glaring error of Castellanos ahead of about 50 other Tiger outfielders, notably Veach, Colavito, Granderson, Gibson, Northrup, & Horton. For his dominance against lefties, there's a price to be paid when he takes the field and gives back runs!
I'd make a spot on the farm for Darrell Evans over Rudy York and add Tony Phillips, Billy Rogell and (sadly) Whitaker over Kell, Fryman, & Guillen.
Great fun to explore this!
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Post by Admin on Jul 29, 2022 20:59:53 GMT
I appreciate you digging into this - we always say we'll never know any team better than their die hard fans, and we have incorporated lots of fan feedback into our rosters already. I'll dig into the names you mentioned that we don't have on our current Tigers roster: Bobo Newsom, George Uhle, and Al Benton. Much as I would love to put "The Bird" on the roster, he only had that one phenomenal season. Max Scherzer is in the league already, but on the Washington roster. Same thing for Rocky Colavito, whose marvelous 1961 Tigers season still doesn't move him off Cleveland's all-time roster. Castellanos makes the Tigers roster because he slaughters LHP, and can pinch hit for corner outfielders and third basemen. Al Kaline qualifies as a really good center fielder, so he and Ty Cobb tend to have that covered so I'm not sure Chet Lemon would get any playing time here. Dick McAuliffe is just missing the roster, as Carlos Guillen fills the same role and had higher peak stats and he's not wresting 2B away from Charlie Gehringer. I'll take a look at Darrell Evans/Tony Phillips/Billy Rogell and see if they can bump someone off the roster. It probably won't be Rudy York - and George Kell is safe because the rosters start with all the Hall of Fame members. Here are some stat comparisons I did for the Tigers OF (plus Willie Horton) and Dick McAuliffe vs. Carlos Guillen.   Thank you for your suggestions! |
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Post by Brett1982 on Dec 13, 2022 22:40:20 GMT
Hi there. I don't mean to sound cranky or like a complainer, but as a life long Tiger fan, I have the following suggestions:
I just can't fathom Carlos Guillen being on the active roster over Lou Whitaker. (Yes, I'm 40 years old and grew up watching Lou and Tram. But this is more than bias. I also think Lou's number 1 finally being retired by the Tigers should earn him an active roster spot as all other guys on the retired number wall are on the team except for one......)
I also can't understand Castellanos over Willie Horton.(This is the other retired number not currently active on the team. Or even on the Farm Roster. That's just a travesty to me.)
Also, Lance Parrish should be the back up to Bill Freehan, not Mickey Tettleton. I loved watching Tettleton as a kid. He was one of my favorites and my friends and I imitated his batting stance more times that I can count. But he isn't better than Parrish.
Finally, the Pitching, at least to me, makes no sense.
Jack Morris and Mickey Lolich should be in the Starting Rotation with Newhouser and Verlander. A quick survey of Tiger fans would probably prove out that we would vote all 4 of those guys into our Starting 5. Who else joins them in a 5 or 6 man rotation doesn't matter as much. Those positions could swap out a few guys. But the Top 4, in order, should be Newhouser, Lolich, Morris and Verlander.
Also, Todd Jones should be active in the Bullpen. He would not be the closer, but based on his place in the Tiger All-Time team stats, he should be in the bullpen.
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silverfox
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Post by silverfox on Dec 13, 2022 23:34:56 GMT
Some of those guys are on the roster because they play multiple positions and give the lineup more flexibility. Others (Tettleton) give a LH-RH balance at their position. I kind of agree on the pitchers. I also like Tommy Bridges and Schoolboy Rowe - but sometimes the stats favor the older oldtimers. I was graciously allowed to make the Tiger lineup for last Sunday's game of the week and had to deal with the limitations first-hand. I also learned that the roster has a limited amount of guys who can play LF or CF well. Lots of guys who can play RF, but I didn't need another RFer.
Todd Jones' only real value was as a closer. He had a high ERA, not a great WHIP,and couldn't strike out my grandma, but 30 of 35 times every year he got the save and the Tigers got the W.
The Tigers have a long, storied history, with a boatload of hall of famers and all stars. I'd like to see the rosters increased to account for that, but that might not be fair to the newer teams and expansion teams.
Considering those things, I think the guys who run this do a superb job, even if I might do a few things differently myself.
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Post by Admin on Dec 15, 2022 1:10:26 GMT
Brett, we absolutely appreciate the feedback - we always say we'll never know a team better than their die hard fans. We are suggesting that Carlos Guillen was a better player or had a better career than "Sweet Lou" Whitaker. He makes the Detroit squad on versatility - with Alan Trammell and Charlie Gehringer entrenched at shortstop and second base, the backup infielder needs versatility and Whitaker only qualifies as a second baseman. Guillen offers a league-average glove at 1B/2B/SS/3B/LF. This season, Guillen has ceded that spot to Harvey Kuenn.
When we're comparing players, keep in mind that Eternal Baseball's peak stats are made by taking each player's best three consecutive seasons and averaging them to isolate their statistical peak. Nick Castellanos' peak OPS is .831, he qualifies (badly) at 3B too, and he positively murders left-handed pitching. Willie Horton's best stretch is 1968-70 when he put together an .848 OPS. That's impressive, but it trails (in order): Hank Greenberg (1.088), Harry Heilmann (1.061), Ty Cobb (1.045), Al Kaline (.902), Sam Crawford (.890), Bobby Veach (.883), Kirk Gibson (.878), and Curtis Granderson (.851). Horton's .848 OPS does top Castallnos' .831, but the other pieces (3B eligibility and great stats vs. LHP make him better suited for pinch hit and bench duty. Detroit is running Curtis Granderson in that fifth outfielder spot at the moment.
Parrish over Tettleton is a close call. Freehan is the undisputed starter, and Parrish is rated much better defensively than Tettleton. Tettleton's advantage is that he hits RHP better than both of them, and 70% of the league's pitchers are right-handed. FROOT LOOPS is off to a rough start, so let's try Lance Parrish as the backup and see how it goes.
As for the rotation, here's how the Tigers rank in order of peak ERA: Hal Newhouser (1.99), Ed Killian (2.10), Bill Donovan (2.19), George Mullin (2.39), Dizzy Trout (2.47), Hooks Dauss (2.61), Dennt McLain (2.74), Tommy Bridges (2.79), Justin Verlander (2.80), Virgil Trucks (2.81), Mickey Lolich (3.02), Jim Bunning (3.15), Jack Morris (3.32),
and Frank Lary (3.38). I totally get how much Morris and Lolich mean to Tiger fans (my Mom is a Tiger fan!) but it is a computer sim and the numbers are gonna help Detroit win more than popularity. If a guy is struggling, we can absolutely swap him out - George Mullin just made room for Justin Verlander in the rotation and JV's first start went great.
In the bullpen, the Tigers rank like this according to peak ERA: John Hiller (2.11), Willie hernandez (2.57), and Mike Hennemann (2.84). The rest of the 'pen is filled with Detroit starters who aren't in the rotation. Jones' best three-year run yields a 3.92 ERA and the Tigers have many better statistical options to put in their bullpen.
I appreciate your detailed feedback and I'm looking forward to Lance Parrish's opportunity. If you see someone struggling for the Tigers please let us know and we can swap him out!
Also, Todd Jones should be active in the Bullpen. He would not be the closer, but based on his place in the Tiger All-Time team stats, he should be in the bullpen. [/quote]
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silverfox
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Post by silverfox on Dec 15, 2022 21:20:49 GMT
Sometimes a computer simulation cannot replicate results on the field. Todd Jones is a prime example. His stats are nothing spectacular, but he somehow almost always ended up with a W for Detroit.
Kirk Gibson wasn't as good on paper as many others, but with the game on the line, I'd want him up over Veach or almost any other OFer.
Plus, numbers don't always match up for eras. Freehan's offensive numbers aren't as good as some catchers, but he played in the pitcher's era where a .285 average could put you in the race for the batting title. Freehan made the all star team almost every year during his peak, and was in the MVP race more than once. Jack Morris has a higher ERA, but I'd sure want him on the hill in a key game. He was the winningest pitcher in the 90s and the best big-game pitcher of his era. I don't know how a computer can account for that.
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